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38 Replies to “Carey On Ravitch”
The free version.
Reads like People magazine.
Many of us have deep respect for people who change their minds when they get new information.
Love the comment at TNR. Better written and more accurate than Carey’s column.
Ultimately all people and ideas get the reputation they deserve. At this point, I’m content to await the verdict of history. Betcha I’m not alone.
TFT, your link didn’t work.
So, for all, here is the comment:
Carey seems fixated on Ravitch and her lover.
I don’t know of Carey’s experience with woman/woman love, but for those interested, Laura Riehman has produced some wonderful poetry.
I’m not 100% sure, but I believe she didn’t attend public school in New Jersey, thus she wasn’t failed by the union teachers who are only interested in protecting their pension and really dislike kids.
I ventured to the neighborhood around Sousa Middle School, the former home of the rock star principal Dwan Jordon, who did wonderful things in the name of Michelle Rhee, according to Richard Whit mire.
People hadn’t started talking about the article, but considering how Richard Whit mire described them as ignorant, that’s not surprising.
Very disappointing profile substantively. One learns who Diane Ravitch has liked and criticized, lived with and commented on, aligned with and turned away. We are told just how wrong she was to have changed her mind, to have written polemics, and to have fiercely defended her views. What we are not offered are the reasons for her transformation, the evidence she has examined and found compelling. Whether one agrees with every Ravitch argument, to suggest that she is intellectually dishonest requires far more evidence than Mr. Carey took time to produce. Ridicule, after all, requires less research, results in a more lubricious read, and enlightens not.
I still haven’t heard anyone talking about this article.
Max, how many examples are required to suggest that “the problem is that Ravitch’s use of evidence to support her new positions is often dubious, selective, and inconsistent”?
7 times 70.
Chris, since when did assertions become evidence?
Never, but I don’t think that’s what I’d call all the examples on page 5
Phillip cracks me up.
Chris still likes to chime in, I see.
I want everyone to know I had to enter the captcha twice–I got it wrong the first time.
I ventured around Hardy Middle School in NW Washington, DC, whose principal, Patrick Pope, was punished by not swallowing Michelle Johnson’s KoolAid.
No one was talking about this.
However, people are beginning to talk about the Mass. high school english teacher who did porn (and not of the fish variety that Andy favors):
Chris Smyr Says:
November 30th, 2011 at 12:53 pm
Never, but I don’t think that’s what I’d call all the examples on page 5
Hilarious, coming from the guy who drops the call for research and evidence when it doesn’t go his way (namely, Michelle Jonhson’s lie that she took her 2nd graders from the 13th percentile on the CTBS to 90% of them at the 90th percentile on the CTBS at the end of 3rd grade. Of course, Chris doesn’t ask why she failed with 7 students who didn’t score at the 90th percentile. By her own standards, she was a failure.)
TFT is easily amused and Phillip is obsessing over past debates that remain unfinished. I will thus post the obligatory link to said debates without humoring him further, and await a response from Max (or anyone else?) about the examples on page 5.
Carey’s torpedoes hit below the water line, although I will say that it doesn’t really matter whether her vendetta against Klein was personally motivated or not, so I think it best not to bring the subject up.
Regardless of the origins of her jihad, the point is that she went way off the deep end. If you go to the NAEP, you’ll see for instance that NYC kids made a grade level worth of progress on 4th grade reading between 2002 and 2009, and that NYC 4th graders outperformed or tied about 12 statewide averages for all children despite being a district whose student demographics are dominated by low-income and minority children.
While this of course does not mean that Klein did everything right, it does make those who chose to accuse a person who got NYC kids reading at about the same level as the students in Oregon of trying to “destroy public education” look utterly foolish. Ravitch is entitled to her opinions, Klein has NAEP scoreboard.
These days Ravitch seems to have crowd-sourced her Twitter account to a group of Occupy Wall Street kids. Or more likely to a team of strident AFT operatives. She is free to have a good time basking in the approval of her fellow travellers but I fail to see any impact that she is having on serious discussion over education policy.
Diane Ravitch has the support of the people who actually teach the children. That’s her impact.
^ Regardless of whether or not her “use of evidence to support her new positions is often dubious, selective, and inconsistent”?
If she were still arguing in favor of reform, would you also castigate her for never having been a teacher?
Not all of the teachers that teach the children, Linda. Not by a long shot.
I think you’d be surprised to know how many.
I’ve been in the teachers lounge enough to know precisely how many, and I’d be kidding everyone if I said that there’s a good amount of teachers against the “ed reform” movement, or at least what they perceive to be the ed reform movement. Once you cut through the misconceptions around the topic though, that number dwindles further than I think you realize.
Even if it is as large of a number as I think you’d like to pretend it is, I just want you to know that you aren’t speaking for all teachers when you comment on this blog, so comments like the one you made above are disingenuous and misleading to those new to the debate.
I meant to say that I’d be kidding if I said there wasn’t a good amount of teachers against ed reform. Sorry for the slip in typing.
Don’t accept what I say, just read the comments by other teachers who respond to this blog.
Most teachers are against the status quo of education by zip code. We want equity for all children, and to me that means medical and social supports along with excellent and EXPERIENCED teachers. Most schools for poor children have more inexperienced teachers and fewer resources.
Please join other teachers in advocating for positive change for our neediest students. Down with the status quo and up with research-based reform! Teachers ARE for reform – the right kind!
You’re crazy if you think you’ll find many people against your vague statements in the last comment. When you’re ready to present solid policy prescriptions for getting to your ideal vision for schools, let me know. What you and I disagree on isn’t the end game, it’s how we get there.
Some people are starting to speak, but it’s the usual suspects.
And Mike Petrilli:
Great comment on Jay’s blog:
No, I don’t think I’ll find many people against my statements because they are based on solid research of the past sixty years. We know that
Healthy children perform better in school;
Parents have a huge effect on the education of the child;
An excellent teacher makes a big difference;
Teacher attrition is especially high in low-income schools;
Important cognitive and language skills are learned in the first five years of life and have an enormous effect on the child’s life chances;
A ratio of one teacher to fifteen pupils or fewer has a positive effect on the achievement of the students;
In order to learn, the student must be engaged;
An impoverished child of color often does better in an integrated, middle income school;
Experiences or “background knowledge” are critical to learning new information;
Based on this research, I support the following policies:
Health clinics on the campuses of low-income schools;
Education for infants, toddlers and preschoolers with a strong parent ed component;
Teachers WITH A PROVEN RECORD OF SUCCESS for the most challenging schools;
Higher salaries, better working conditions and professional autonomy for teachers as a way of attracting and retaining “the best and the brightest.”
Public school vouchers for children in “failing” schools;
Two teachers in a class of thirty students; one to teach and the other to monitor learning and behavior;
Camp and other enriching out-of- school experiences for low-income children;
Magnets and public school vouchers to provide choice for parents and children trapped in impoverished schools;
Pgteacher: You sound like a teacher who cares. Please join other teachers and child advocates in demanding educational equity for our poorest children. Let’s tear down the status quo of education by zip code. Thank you for your service to children.
(I believe the present “reform” movement will lead to privatization of public schools. Since we already have this at the college level, we know where it will lead us: Berkeley for the privileged and Pay and Pass Tech and huge debts for the poor. Please think about it. Thank you.)
If he/she doesn’t “join other teachers” and push your flimsy arguments, does that mean he/she doesn’t care about children?
No, it does not.
Chris, I just read over my post to see which of my arguments is “flimsy.” It’s extremely revealing that you would describe them as such.
Poor children have the same basic needs as the rest of us. Please support them. Thank you.
posts*. Read over your posts. Look at other threads if you don’t understand what’s so flimsy, as I’ve been laying it out for you for over 2 years now.
And how is it “extremely revealing”? Are you implying I don’t think “poor children have the same basic needs as the rest of us”? And isn’t that exactly what you were implying toward pgteacher, that he doesn’t care about educational equity unless he pushes *your* way of achieving it?
Pgteacher sounds very caring to me. After all, s/he is actually teaching!
By “extremely revealing” I meant that you must have another agenda if you think my suggestions are “flimsy” as I am suggesting basics (health care, successful teachers) that we KNOW will help children.
Please support educational equity for ALL our children. Let’s destroy the status quo of education by zip code.
Yes, let’s just halve all class sizes and mandate free access to healthcare and child services for all, while simultaneously enforcing a strict “Great Teacher” requirement in failing schools. Surely that’s a winning policy strategy and one we can enact by next fall. Why on earth didn’t anyone think of this sooner!
I’m glad you’re seeing the light, but I don’t mean “for all” but only for the poorest and most vulnerable among us.
“The measure of a civilization is how it treats its weakest members.”
Linda, asking Creationist Chris to supply evidence for anything he claims is like asking a hooker for a receipt.