Rhee-Assessing

60 Replies to “Rhee-Assessing”

1. And if you were to look at any of the analyses I’ve posted, you’ll see that I am referencing the EXACT SAME data. Go ahead, give it a look. You should be able to tell that the only thing I’m doing is disaggregating the data, something that you consistently fail to do as you add your commentary. Not only that, but every time that you have cited this data, I’ve done my best to show you what exactly is incorrect about your use of said data (I did it most recently in this thread: https://www.eduwonk.com/2010/09/rhee-assessing-2.html/comment-page-1#comment-210276 ).

   But instead of engaging the discussion, you never directly respond to my attempts at doing so, and instead just huff and puff about some unrelated point. You claim that you “haven’t analyzed anything”, and I would agree with you: you instead post data that doesn’t support your conclusions. You next imply that I am “turning [facts] on their head”, but you have not once– NOT ONCE — explained how exactly I am misusing the data.

   So try harder, big boy: How am I misusing the data? And how do you justify your own flimsy approach to said data?

2. Chris:
   ” you instead post data that doesn’t support your conclusions”

   Me:
   Achievement Gap between African American students and White&Asian students:
   Reading Math
   2003 31.9 32.6
   2004 37.0 38.6
   2005 36.7 39.6
   2006 47.6 54.8
   2007 51.7 55.5
   2008 45.2 51.6
   2009 42.8 45.9
   2010 46.2 49.4

   Chris:
   The achievement gap overall has closed

   THAT’s how you misuse data.

   What are you going to believe:
   Chris’s disaggregation or your own eyes.

3. You STILL won’t respond to anything I wrote. This is an unbelievable waste of time….

4. …
   and I agree.

   I’m going out back to gently argue with my black lab as she is sensitive.

   PS If you want a bulldog, I’m trying to help a friend give his dog a new home. He’s very obedient. Much, much more so than me.
   🙂

   Have a good weekend, Chris.
   I’m done with eduwonk til Monday.

5. You cannot accurately measure the achievement gap using proficiency/pass rates.
   You cannot accurately measure the achievement gap using proficiency/pass rates.
   You cannot accurately measure the achievement gap using proficiency/pass rates.
   You cannot accurately measure the achievement gap using proficiency/pass rates.
   You cannot accurately measure the achievement gap using proficiency/pass rates.
   You cannot accurately measure the achievement gap using proficiency/pass rates.
   You cannot accurately measure the achievement gap using proficiency/pass rates.

   I told you that before, Didn’t you listen?

6. Billy Bob:

   Oh, how nice to see you again Billy, do you plan on staying long? I’m heading out for vacation now, but I am looking forward to hearing further from you when I return.

   And hmm, you’re right, if only we had scale scores that we could analyze over time that perhaps would also show continuing growth in student achievement — and perhaps at a statistically significant rate faster than previous years — to bolster my analyses of DC-CAS proficiency levels… oh wait, we do!

   https://www.eduwonk.com/2010/08/whole-lotta-news.html#comment-209153

   Another response to you, as before:

   ***”I’ve not provided any scale scores other than NAEP because I don’t know of any others that I can cite as evidence for you. If you recall, that was one of the reasons I said you were being foolish in striking Rhee’s reform efforts down because of one friggin’ time point on the NAEP tests, a time point that even continued gains from the previous year’s test, and one that was similarly faster than the trend from the year before that.”***

   Please also realize that the only time I ever actually bring up the DC-CAS data is to correct others who try to use the same data as evidence of Rhee’s supposed failures. Either you can’t use the DC-CAS data one bit, or you can and it suggests gains in student achievement. At this point I don’t really care which one you or others pick to defend.

   What’s odd, though, is that you seem to illogically hold both perspectives to suit your fancy:

   * “You cannot accurately measure the achievement gap using proficiency/pass rates.”

   * “[Rhee’s] NAEP gains and achievement gap results suggest she is not on track.”

7. Wow–you are dumber than I thought.

   * “You cannot accurately measure the achievement gap using proficiency/pass rates.”

   TRUE

   * “[Rhee’s] NAEP gains and achievement gap results suggest she is not on track.”

   TRUE

   Gains are not different post-Rhee than pre-Rhee. Thus, she has not added any value.

   Achievement gaps have not closed in a statistically significant manner. Thus, she has failed on this part of her promise. We went over this multiple times, but you never understood.

   I don’t check in every day because I have a job and life (you might want to get both of those as well as a significant other)

   That, and you have pretty much ruined any civil discourse on the board which probably drives people away from coming on here.

8. Naturally there are limitations to dichotomizing achievement into proficient/not proficient. Andrew Ho has some nice work on this and suggestions for better ways of describing achievement trends. But even a limited measure such as proficiency rate can be useful. I’m all for better tests and better statistics, but when scores are going up for all kids, which seems to be the case in DC, the measurement debate is a red herring.

9. Billy Bob:

   1) ““[Rhee’s] NAEP gains and achievement gap results suggest she is not on track.”

   TRUE”

   This is NOT true. If you don’t want to cite the DC-CAS scores as evidence of a trend of increasing student achievement, then you have to rely one one data point on the NAEP tests, which if you were to extrapolate from anyway, show significantly significant gains in student achievement. You’ve not shown otherwise. Instead, you continue to say that the NAEP gains are not significant, even though I’ve shown you on several occasions that they are. Nor should we have expected that she would be able to close the achievement gap in the span of 3 years time.

   Billy, you have dropped MANY different discussions on this forum, and not just with me. You like to continue with this line of reasoning that your non-responses are all because those that disagree with you don’t “have a job and a life”, or that I’ve somehow “ruined civil discourse”. Since the former is illogical, asinine, and wrong, and you yourself are ironically perpetuating the latter (nor is it at all clear why disagreeing with someone somehow “ruins civil discourse”), perhaps your refusal to respond is because you just don’t know how to correctly phrase any counterarguments?

10. ^ “statistically significant”