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	<title>Comments on: Reinventing Ed School 1: What courses?</title>
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		<title>By: Ginny Deerin</title>
		<link>http://www.eduwonk.com/2009/08/reinventing-ed-school-1-what-courses.html/comment-page-1#comment-98684</link>
		<dc:creator>Ginny Deerin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Aug 2009 00:41:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eduwonk.com/?p=4205#comment-98684</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s a radical notion. At this brand new Ed School we&#039;re opening, let&#039;s equip students with the social and emotional skills that are the hallmark of the most effective leaders. 

What we found at our WINGS after school programs in Charleston, S.C., is that training college students to teach social and emotional skills to children also gives them the tools to motivate themselves and others. Also empowering is their understanding of how they can make a profound difference in the lives of others.

Research shows that social and emotional learning strengthens attachment to school and makes children more effective learners. These same skills also can give their teachers the power to maximize their impact upon the children they serve.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s a radical notion. At this brand new Ed School we&#8217;re opening, let&#8217;s equip students with the social and emotional skills that are the hallmark of the most effective leaders. </p>
<p>What we found at our WINGS after school programs in Charleston, S.C., is that training college students to teach social and emotional skills to children also gives them the tools to motivate themselves and others. Also empowering is their understanding of how they can make a profound difference in the lives of others.</p>
<p>Research shows that social and emotional learning strengthens attachment to school and makes children more effective learners. These same skills also can give their teachers the power to maximize their impact upon the children they serve.</p>
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		<title>By: Karen</title>
		<link>http://www.eduwonk.com/2009/08/reinventing-ed-school-1-what-courses.html/comment-page-1#comment-98602</link>
		<dc:creator>Karen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Aug 2009 16:46:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eduwonk.com/?p=4205#comment-98602</guid>
		<description>LHB, there is some lattitude, but not for everything. For example, in NY State, there is an explicit requirement for 6 credits of language and literacy for everyone, but no actual credit requirements for content knowledge! So, you have to take 6 credits of language and literacy to be a math teacher, but no specific credits for how much mathematics methods. By listing everything under the sun, the easiest way for a school/university to show that it is being done is to create a course with that title. From learned experience of how hard it is to get the programs through when you remove courses and embed the content, it is a huge hassle to get it through the state. When it is embedded, the reviewers at the state have to actually review the content of the syllabi, and probably rightly so, worry that the evolution of the course will wash out some of the required things. I can slowly replace more and more straight mathematics methods without attention to differentiation than if I had a separate special education course. 

So, I acknowledge there may be more literal flexibility than what is practiced, but the practices build up for a reason. The other issue is that often courses like educational psychology are the only undergraduate courses the ed psych department offers, so they fight to hold on to them for their own ends. But again, that is outside the purview of my group. The same is true at my institution for other &quot;foundations&quot; courses like history of education or education and society.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LHB, there is some lattitude, but not for everything. For example, in NY State, there is an explicit requirement for 6 credits of language and literacy for everyone, but no actual credit requirements for content knowledge! So, you have to take 6 credits of language and literacy to be a math teacher, but no specific credits for how much mathematics methods. By listing everything under the sun, the easiest way for a school/university to show that it is being done is to create a course with that title. From learned experience of how hard it is to get the programs through when you remove courses and embed the content, it is a huge hassle to get it through the state. When it is embedded, the reviewers at the state have to actually review the content of the syllabi, and probably rightly so, worry that the evolution of the course will wash out some of the required things. I can slowly replace more and more straight mathematics methods without attention to differentiation than if I had a separate special education course. </p>
<p>So, I acknowledge there may be more literal flexibility than what is practiced, but the practices build up for a reason. The other issue is that often courses like educational psychology are the only undergraduate courses the ed psych department offers, so they fight to hold on to them for their own ends. But again, that is outside the purview of my group. The same is true at my institution for other &#8220;foundations&#8221; courses like history of education or education and society.</p>
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		<title>By: LHB</title>
		<link>http://www.eduwonk.com/2009/08/reinventing-ed-school-1-what-courses.html/comment-page-1#comment-98558</link>
		<dc:creator>LHB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Aug 2009 13:39:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eduwonk.com/?p=4205#comment-98558</guid>
		<description>Karen, I would suggest that you look closely at the program approval requirements in your state. I am in Georgia now and worked at a university in Missouri recently. Neither state explicitly prescribes a list of courses that teacher candidates must complete in order to be eligible for certification. In Georgia, the guidance prep programs are given is that they must &quot;incorporate the Georgia Framework for Teaching&quot; (GA Professional Standards Commission Rule 505-3.-01). That is as prescriptive as it gets. However, deans and department chairs will swear up and down that they have to have the same courses they always have &quot;because the state certification rules require it.&quot; I really am not sure what all political forces are at play here, but I know that it is a royal PITA to try to get a college/university faculty to approve new courses and suspect that may be the more legitimate barrier than state policy. That said, every state is different so I recognize it&#039;s possible you are in a state that explicitly defines required courses.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Karen, I would suggest that you look closely at the program approval requirements in your state. I am in Georgia now and worked at a university in Missouri recently. Neither state explicitly prescribes a list of courses that teacher candidates must complete in order to be eligible for certification. In Georgia, the guidance prep programs are given is that they must &#8220;incorporate the Georgia Framework for Teaching&#8221; (GA Professional Standards Commission Rule 505-3.-01). That is as prescriptive as it gets. However, deans and department chairs will swear up and down that they have to have the same courses they always have &#8220;because the state certification rules require it.&#8221; I really am not sure what all political forces are at play here, but I know that it is a royal PITA to try to get a college/university faculty to approve new courses and suspect that may be the more legitimate barrier than state policy. That said, every state is different so I recognize it&#8217;s possible you are in a state that explicitly defines required courses.</p>
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		<title>By: GGW</title>
		<link>http://www.eduwonk.com/2009/08/reinventing-ed-school-1-what-courses.html/comment-page-1#comment-98471</link>
		<dc:creator>GGW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Aug 2009 11:40:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eduwonk.com/?p=4205#comment-98471</guid>
		<description>Karen, I found a reference to &quot;Charter education schools.&quot;

EdWeek, Published: September 8, 2004.  Susan Tave Zelman, the Ohio superintendent of public instruction, announced the state&#039;s first &quot;charter education schools&quot; last month....

Wright St and Mt. St. Josephs.  

Anyone know what happened?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Karen, I found a reference to &#8220;Charter education schools.&#8221;</p>
<p>EdWeek, Published: September 8, 2004.  Susan Tave Zelman, the Ohio superintendent of public instruction, announced the state&#8217;s first &#8220;charter education schools&#8221; last month&#8230;.</p>
<p>Wright St and Mt. St. Josephs.  </p>
<p>Anyone know what happened?</p>
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		<title>By: John Dewey</title>
		<link>http://www.eduwonk.com/2009/08/reinventing-ed-school-1-what-courses.html/comment-page-1#comment-98462</link>
		<dc:creator>John Dewey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Aug 2009 10:56:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eduwonk.com/?p=4205#comment-98462</guid>
		<description>General comment: get rid of the bent for constructivist, inquiry-based, student-centered, brain-based, standards-based and vendor-based crap.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>General comment: get rid of the bent for constructivist, inquiry-based, student-centered, brain-based, standards-based and vendor-based crap.</p>
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		<title>By: schoolhouse</title>
		<link>http://www.eduwonk.com/2009/08/reinventing-ed-school-1-what-courses.html/comment-page-1#comment-98409</link>
		<dc:creator>schoolhouse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Aug 2009 02:07:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eduwonk.com/?p=4205#comment-98409</guid>
		<description>[sorry there] What do good schools look like? How to assess student learning ?  How to develop a critical voice?  These questions are explored through multilple lenses which include historical, political and social elements.  The students also complete numerous projects including data assessments of multiple school districts, as well as position papers on current topics in education.  Primarily, I fully believe in the importance of Content Area Specialization-you can not teach English or Math or Social Studies if you do not have a distinct command of the requisite academic skills of the subject.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[sorry there] What do good schools look like? How to assess student learning ?  How to develop a critical voice?  These questions are explored through multilple lenses which include historical, political and social elements.  The students also complete numerous projects including data assessments of multiple school districts, as well as position papers on current topics in education.  Primarily, I fully believe in the importance of Content Area Specialization-you can not teach English or Math or Social Studies if you do not have a distinct command of the requisite academic skills of the subject.</p>
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		<title>By: schoolhouse</title>
		<link>http://www.eduwonk.com/2009/08/reinventing-ed-school-1-what-courses.html/comment-page-1#comment-98408</link>
		<dc:creator>schoolhouse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Aug 2009 02:02:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eduwonk.com/?p=4205#comment-98408</guid>
		<description>Seems that most people here are ready to rid education and society courses or foundational aspects of american education I happen to  disagree-for one, it is a course which I teach-and I organize my course around essential questions that that are explored throughout the duration of the course.  1) Why teach? Who are today&#039;s students? What makes a good teacher?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seems that most people here are ready to rid education and society courses or foundational aspects of american education I happen to  disagree-for one, it is a course which I teach-and I organize my course around essential questions that that are explored throughout the duration of the course.  1) Why teach? Who are today&#8217;s students? What makes a good teacher?</p>
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		<title>By: Karen</title>
		<link>http://www.eduwonk.com/2009/08/reinventing-ed-school-1-what-courses.html/comment-page-1#comment-98313</link>
		<dc:creator>Karen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2009 22:45:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eduwonk.com/?p=4205#comment-98313</guid>
		<description>So, as an ed school faculty member, I&#039;d like to do a lot of things to my curriculum to make it better, but there are constraints that no one has mentioned. While everyone gripes about the ed school as the problem, from where I sit innovation is stifled by state certification rules that say that all teachers must have 3 credits of this, 6 credits of that. Without including these courses, the program does not get accredited to certify teachers at the end. So, while I am the first to complain about my own curriculum, a lot of the lack of innovation happens at the level of state policy. So, I urge all of you to find out what your state requires in an education program and push to loosen those, or create the equivalent of &quot;charter education schools&quot; that let us innovate.

If it were up to me, I would frame almost everything as content area methods courses, and teach the other information embedded in the methods classes. Differentiation is not generic, and should be taught within the mathematics or reading methods course, since it will look different in each of those courses. Same with education and society, since it is different for different subject areas. For example, algebra for all is a recent (in the past 15 years) phenomenon whereas literacy for all is a much older requirement of schooling. So, I&#039;d do away with the non-subject specific courses for all middle and high school teachers and build the ideas and knowledge into the subject methods courses and have 6-8 of them that narrowly focus on even smaller issues and aspects of the content areas (e.g., Algebra, Geometry or US History, world history). I&#039;d add child development for early childhood teachers.

My final gripe is that one of the things that not having a real career path for teachers creates is this feeling you have to teach everything in their education program because I have no idea what my teachers will see when they leave. They may end up in a school that has a great program of professional development, but most don&#039;t. So there is pressure to prepare not just for the first couple of years, but for the rest of their careers since my mathematics methods courses might be the last time they see a subject specific course that is of a long enough duration and intensive enough to ever make a difference. I&#039;d be better able to focus is I knew, like in medicine, that the continuing education was actually going to be focused and relevant.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, as an ed school faculty member, I&#8217;d like to do a lot of things to my curriculum to make it better, but there are constraints that no one has mentioned. While everyone gripes about the ed school as the problem, from where I sit innovation is stifled by state certification rules that say that all teachers must have 3 credits of this, 6 credits of that. Without including these courses, the program does not get accredited to certify teachers at the end. So, while I am the first to complain about my own curriculum, a lot of the lack of innovation happens at the level of state policy. So, I urge all of you to find out what your state requires in an education program and push to loosen those, or create the equivalent of &#8220;charter education schools&#8221; that let us innovate.</p>
<p>If it were up to me, I would frame almost everything as content area methods courses, and teach the other information embedded in the methods classes. Differentiation is not generic, and should be taught within the mathematics or reading methods course, since it will look different in each of those courses. Same with education and society, since it is different for different subject areas. For example, algebra for all is a recent (in the past 15 years) phenomenon whereas literacy for all is a much older requirement of schooling. So, I&#8217;d do away with the non-subject specific courses for all middle and high school teachers and build the ideas and knowledge into the subject methods courses and have 6-8 of them that narrowly focus on even smaller issues and aspects of the content areas (e.g., Algebra, Geometry or US History, world history). I&#8217;d add child development for early childhood teachers.</p>
<p>My final gripe is that one of the things that not having a real career path for teachers creates is this feeling you have to teach everything in their education program because I have no idea what my teachers will see when they leave. They may end up in a school that has a great program of professional development, but most don&#8217;t. So there is pressure to prepare not just for the first couple of years, but for the rest of their careers since my mathematics methods courses might be the last time they see a subject specific course that is of a long enough duration and intensive enough to ever make a difference. I&#8217;d be better able to focus is I knew, like in medicine, that the continuing education was actually going to be focused and relevant.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy</title>
		<link>http://www.eduwonk.com/2009/08/reinventing-ed-school-1-what-courses.html/comment-page-1#comment-98233</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2009 18:05:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eduwonk.com/?p=4205#comment-98233</guid>
		<description>I am also a TFA alum, and will second Jonathon&#039;s comments about TFA curriculum. They also have a leg up on many ed school programs because they continually make changes to the curriculum based on feedback from current corps members and alum to make it useful to new teachers.

I agree with the idea of restructuring the ed school curriculum, starting with nuts-and-bolts, then fading into more theory. Some basic ed psychology should be presented early, but only in relation to practice. I think that it would be helpful for ed schools to take an approach similar to med schools (with early coursework, then rotations, then residency) rather than take an approach that separates the theory from practice. Teacher reflection definitely needs to be a major part of the curriculum.

I think ed schools should also think about how to extend teacher participation in school research after certification is obtained. This could be part of a MA/PhD program that focuses on theory once teachers have had time (2-3 years) to get their &#039;nuts-and-bolts&#039; under control and start thinking about how they can continually evolve as a teacher. (Full disclosure: I&#039;m a full-time student in a PhD program in science ed.)

@LBH: Ditto. I think this is at the heart of the TFA curriculum, and should be for all ed schools.

@Andrew Bell: Yes, TFA tries to recruit English majors to teach English and science majors to teach science, but this isn&#039;t always the case due to openings in particular regions. I&#039;ve definitely heard of sociology majors teaching math in TFA, but usually due to logistical contraints.

@Gideon: (1) there are already plenty of teacher standards put out by teacher professional organizations (NSTA and NCTM come to mind), and (2) different teachers have different needs based on their teaching situations. I&#039;m not sure that more standards will help the situation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am also a TFA alum, and will second Jonathon&#8217;s comments about TFA curriculum. They also have a leg up on many ed school programs because they continually make changes to the curriculum based on feedback from current corps members and alum to make it useful to new teachers.</p>
<p>I agree with the idea of restructuring the ed school curriculum, starting with nuts-and-bolts, then fading into more theory. Some basic ed psychology should be presented early, but only in relation to practice. I think that it would be helpful for ed schools to take an approach similar to med schools (with early coursework, then rotations, then residency) rather than take an approach that separates the theory from practice. Teacher reflection definitely needs to be a major part of the curriculum.</p>
<p>I think ed schools should also think about how to extend teacher participation in school research after certification is obtained. This could be part of a MA/PhD program that focuses on theory once teachers have had time (2-3 years) to get their &#8216;nuts-and-bolts&#8217; under control and start thinking about how they can continually evolve as a teacher. (Full disclosure: I&#8217;m a full-time student in a PhD program in science ed.)</p>
<p>@LBH: Ditto. I think this is at the heart of the TFA curriculum, and should be for all ed schools.</p>
<p>@Andrew Bell: Yes, TFA tries to recruit English majors to teach English and science majors to teach science, but this isn&#8217;t always the case due to openings in particular regions. I&#8217;ve definitely heard of sociology majors teaching math in TFA, but usually due to logistical contraints.</p>
<p>@Gideon: (1) there are already plenty of teacher standards put out by teacher professional organizations (NSTA and NCTM come to mind), and (2) different teachers have different needs based on their teaching situations. I&#8217;m not sure that more standards will help the situation.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter</title>
		<link>http://www.eduwonk.com/2009/08/reinventing-ed-school-1-what-courses.html/comment-page-1#comment-98224</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2009 17:32:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eduwonk.com/?p=4205#comment-98224</guid>
		<description>My main complaint about my education degree (I earned a master&#039;s through the NYC Teaching Fellows program) is that I never learned how to DO anything.  

I spent two years of night/summer classes learning about curriculum, child psychology, modes of understanding, etc.  But what I really could have used was training: how to deal with disruptive behavior, handle a fire drill, run a parent conference, etc.  

I suppose the logic was that we&#039;d learn this all in our schools - and we did, but only through trial and error.  I think our schools – at least mine – assumed that we’d learn all this at ed school.  

Police recruits receive practical training with various scenarios - it builds a reflex on which to rely when the real thing happens.  I wish teaching programs would incorporate the same mode of training into their degree programs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My main complaint about my education degree (I earned a master&#8217;s through the NYC Teaching Fellows program) is that I never learned how to DO anything.  </p>
<p>I spent two years of night/summer classes learning about curriculum, child psychology, modes of understanding, etc.  But what I really could have used was training: how to deal with disruptive behavior, handle a fire drill, run a parent conference, etc.  </p>
<p>I suppose the logic was that we&#8217;d learn this all in our schools &#8211; and we did, but only through trial and error.  I think our schools – at least mine – assumed that we’d learn all this at ed school.  </p>
<p>Police recruits receive practical training with various scenarios &#8211; it builds a reflex on which to rely when the real thing happens.  I wish teaching programs would incorporate the same mode of training into their degree programs.</p>
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