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	<title>Comments on: Liberty!  Well, Sorta&#8230;</title>
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	<link>http://www.eduwonk.com/2008/11/liberty-well-sorta.html</link>
	<description>Education News, Analysis, and Commentary</description>
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		<title>By: infopractical</title>
		<link>http://www.eduwonk.com/2008/11/liberty-well-sorta.html/comment-page-1#comment-22046</link>
		<dc:creator>infopractical</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Nov 2008 06:59:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eduwonk.com/?p=3661#comment-22046</guid>
		<description>While I sympathize deeply with people who feel the weight of personal and financial bigotry via government institutions, this is exactly what we ask for when we vote for the two major parties -- government that gives and takes rights and wealth according to popular or populist voting distributions.  Being a &quot;republic&quot; was supposed to be a check on that problem...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I sympathize deeply with people who feel the weight of personal and financial bigotry via government institutions, this is exactly what we ask for when we vote for the two major parties &#8212; government that gives and takes rights and wealth according to popular or populist voting distributions.  Being a &#8220;republic&#8221; was supposed to be a check on that problem&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Neerav</title>
		<link>http://www.eduwonk.com/2008/11/liberty-well-sorta.html/comment-page-1#comment-21913</link>
		<dc:creator>Neerav</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Nov 2008 13:25:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eduwonk.com/?p=3661#comment-21913</guid>
		<description>I believe the difference between the two has to do with the fact that preventing gay marriage is intentional discrimination, while preventing school choice is not.  If you passed a law where only straight people received vouchers, then you&#039;d have a more analogous situation, as well as a very ridiculous law. 

Take care,

Neerav</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe the difference between the two has to do with the fact that preventing gay marriage is intentional discrimination, while preventing school choice is not.  If you passed a law where only straight people received vouchers, then you&#8217;d have a more analogous situation, as well as a very ridiculous law. </p>
<p>Take care,</p>
<p>Neerav</p>
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		<title>By: MJ</title>
		<link>http://www.eduwonk.com/2008/11/liberty-well-sorta.html/comment-page-1#comment-21838</link>
		<dc:creator>MJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Nov 2008 03:58:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eduwonk.com/?p=3661#comment-21838</guid>
		<description>I actually think the analogy is right on...

But worse for would be supporters of same sex-marriage and opponents of school choice.

Let&#039;s see.  Opponents of same-sex marriage argue that denying marriage rights isn&#039;t discrimination because a gay man is entitled to marry any woman of his choice - the exact same right that a straight man has.  Construed technically there is no discrimination here.  

The logical reply is that they gay man does not want the right to marry a woman, but instead the right to marry the person of his choice - the person that he loves.

Well let&#039;s go to the public school system.  A low-income parent in Washington D.C., has the same rights as a wealthy parent in D.C. to send their kids to one of D.C.&#039;s awful public schools - however, the wealthy parent doesn&#039;t want this right, so he or she bypasses it and moves into a wealthy community in Bethesda or puts the child in a private school.  Both parents had the same *right* given by the state, but no one could argue that the de facto impact was to provide something less attractive an rather worthless (a crappy education) to the poor family.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I actually think the analogy is right on&#8230;</p>
<p>But worse for would be supporters of same sex-marriage and opponents of school choice.</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s see.  Opponents of same-sex marriage argue that denying marriage rights isn&#8217;t discrimination because a gay man is entitled to marry any woman of his choice &#8211; the exact same right that a straight man has.  Construed technically there is no discrimination here.  </p>
<p>The logical reply is that they gay man does not want the right to marry a woman, but instead the right to marry the person of his choice &#8211; the person that he loves.</p>
<p>Well let&#8217;s go to the public school system.  A low-income parent in Washington D.C., has the same rights as a wealthy parent in D.C. to send their kids to one of D.C.&#8217;s awful public schools &#8211; however, the wealthy parent doesn&#8217;t want this right, so he or she bypasses it and moves into a wealthy community in Bethesda or puts the child in a private school.  Both parents had the same *right* given by the state, but no one could argue that the de facto impact was to provide something less attractive an rather worthless (a crappy education) to the poor family.</p>
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		<title>By: Lou</title>
		<link>http://www.eduwonk.com/2008/11/liberty-well-sorta.html/comment-page-1#comment-21786</link>
		<dc:creator>Lou</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Nov 2008 22:32:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Your argument does not work for school choice.  You may have a more suitable comparison for gay marriage with something like fully-funded preschool.  In both cases, you are providing new opportunities for individuals that they did not have access to in the past.  Many folks would consider access to both of these things as rights.

School choice is less marriage and more divorce.  You want to take shots at progressives for not embraching school choice and charter schools.  What you fail to understand is that the majority of Americans want to see their public schools repaired not scrapped.  They may check out the cute little blonde in the corner (what&#039;s happening now charter school), but at the end of the day most choose to head home and make their marriage work.  This is consistent with their values.  

Speaking of values-- charter schools make neat idea factories for disgruntled Gen Xers, but they make for horrible football teams.  You should spend less time thinking about gay marriage and more time reflecting on football--the real secret to school reform.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your argument does not work for school choice.  You may have a more suitable comparison for gay marriage with something like fully-funded preschool.  In both cases, you are providing new opportunities for individuals that they did not have access to in the past.  Many folks would consider access to both of these things as rights.</p>
<p>School choice is less marriage and more divorce.  You want to take shots at progressives for not embraching school choice and charter schools.  What you fail to understand is that the majority of Americans want to see their public schools repaired not scrapped.  They may check out the cute little blonde in the corner (what&#8217;s happening now charter school), but at the end of the day most choose to head home and make their marriage work.  This is consistent with their values.  </p>
<p>Speaking of values&#8211; charter schools make neat idea factories for disgruntled Gen Xers, but they make for horrible football teams.  You should spend less time thinking about gay marriage and more time reflecting on football&#8211;the real secret to school reform.</p>
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		<title>By: Anano</title>
		<link>http://www.eduwonk.com/2008/11/liberty-well-sorta.html/comment-page-1#comment-21764</link>
		<dc:creator>Anano</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Nov 2008 19:35:06 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Here’s the difference – marriage, as sanctioned by the state, and public education are secular issues.  As an atheist, I resent religious groups claiming the right to own marriage.  And I don’t believe parochial schools should have access to public funds to indoctrinate children with religious beliefs.  While I support charter schools, I think those who don&#039;t are opposed due to financial issues - decreasing funds to traditional public schools.  This isn&#039;t an argument that can be made for marriage - it&#039;s not a zero sum game.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here’s the difference – marriage, as sanctioned by the state, and public education are secular issues.  As an atheist, I resent religious groups claiming the right to own marriage.  And I don’t believe parochial schools should have access to public funds to indoctrinate children with religious beliefs.  While I support charter schools, I think those who don&#8217;t are opposed due to financial issues &#8211; decreasing funds to traditional public schools.  This isn&#8217;t an argument that can be made for marriage &#8211; it&#8217;s not a zero sum game.</p>
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		<title>By: Catherine Cullen</title>
		<link>http://www.eduwonk.com/2008/11/liberty-well-sorta.html/comment-page-1#comment-21754</link>
		<dc:creator>Catherine Cullen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Nov 2008 18:48:48 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Shameless plug for the Fordham Fellows Blog, where there&#039;s a response to this post:
www.edexcellence.net/fordhamfellows/blog</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shameless plug for the Fordham Fellows Blog, where there&#8217;s a response to this post:<br />
<a href="http://www.edexcellence.net/fordhamfellows/blog" rel="nofollow">http://www.edexcellence.net/fordhamfellows/blog</a></p>
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		<title>By: Reason</title>
		<link>http://www.eduwonk.com/2008/11/liberty-well-sorta.html/comment-page-1#comment-21734</link>
		<dc:creator>Reason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Nov 2008 16:04:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eduwonk.com/?p=3661#comment-21734</guid>
		<description>A consistent libertarian analysis would find a glaring difference between charter schooling and gay marriage. Gay marriage rights do not make claims on other people&#039;s property; public schooling does. Although the answer to both problems is the same:  the state should have nothing to do with marriage or school.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A consistent libertarian analysis would find a glaring difference between charter schooling and gay marriage. Gay marriage rights do not make claims on other people&#8217;s property; public schooling does. Although the answer to both problems is the same:  the state should have nothing to do with marriage or school.</p>
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