Comments on: Short Selling The Schools http://www.eduwonk.com/2008/07/short-selling-the-schools.html Education News, Analysis, and Commentary Fri, 21 Nov 2008 10:07:26 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: SR http://www.eduwonk.com/2008/07/short-selling-the-schools.html#comment-2496 SR Thu, 24 Jul 2008 20:10:29 +0000 http://www.eduwonk.com/?p=3399#comment-2496 Eduwonk, yes, things may be improving in DC. But the issue is whether the schools can do "the job expected of them." Are you satisfied with how the schools are doing? Would you send your child to a DC public school? This argument is still frustrating to me. Yes, good schools make a difference. And good for them for making improvements. But is it enough to be marginally better? Gardner is saying that if this debate is about creating excellent schools for all children, then the schools need help. Your post makes me think that you are satisfied with small improvements. It's not enough. Eduwonk, yes, things may be improving in DC. But the issue is whether the schools can do “the job expected of them.” Are you satisfied with how the schools are doing? Would you send your child to a DC public school?

This argument is still frustrating to me. Yes, good schools make a difference. And good for them for making improvements. But is it enough to be marginally better? Gardner is saying that if this debate is about creating excellent schools for all children, then the schools need help. Your post makes me think that you are satisfied with small improvements. It’s not enough.

]]> By: john thompson http://www.eduwonk.com/2008/07/short-selling-the-schools.html#comment-2003 john thompson Fri, 18 Jul 2008 15:34:16 +0000 http://www.eduwonk.com/?p=3399#comment-2003 Same human nature. Come on, we're dealing with featherless bipeds. Data driven accountability requires integrity. That can happen, especially in small learning communities. Its virtually impossible on a national level or in a political hothouse. Same human nature. Come on, we’re dealing with featherless bipeds.

Data driven accountability requires integrity. That can happen, especially in small learning communities. Its virtually impossible on a national level or in a political hothouse.

]]> By: Tom Riggs http://www.eduwonk.com/2008/07/short-selling-the-schools.html#comment-2002 Tom Riggs Fri, 18 Jul 2008 15:26:06 +0000 http://www.eduwonk.com/?p=3399#comment-2002 What does that have to do with D.C.? Is it the same test? What does that have to do with D.C.? Is it the same test?

]]> By: john thompson http://www.eduwonk.com/2008/07/short-selling-the-schools.html#comment-2000 john thompson Fri, 18 Jul 2008 15:15:16 +0000 http://www.eduwonk.com/?p=3399#comment-2000 AFTER THE BANNER HEADLINES, we read the rest of the story about Maryland test score increses, or at least we start to learn. The Baltimore Sun reported, "We had a lively discussion on these results within the panel," said Huynh Huynh, a professor of statistics and education at the University of South Carolina and a member of the panel. ... ... But the panel also concluded that the changes in the test had contributed to the large increases in the fifth- and seventh-grade scores. How much effect the changes had on scores the panel could not estimate, he said."It was also reported that, "Long before the results were released to the public, the panel asked Harcourt Assessment Inc., the company hired by the state to oversee testing, to do further analysis." Why wasn't the public told this at the beginning? AFTER THE BANNER HEADLINES, we read the rest of the story about Maryland test score increses, or at least we start to learn.

The Baltimore Sun reported,

“We had a lively discussion on these results within the panel,” said Huynh Huynh, a professor of statistics and education at the University of South Carolina and a member of the panel. …

… But the panel also concluded that the changes in the test had contributed to the large increases in the fifth- and seventh-grade scores. How much effect the changes had on scores the panel could not estimate, he said.”It was also reported that,

“Long before the results were released to the public, the panel asked Harcourt Assessment Inc., the company hired by the state to oversee testing, to do further analysis.”

Why wasn’t the public told this at the beginning?

]]> By: BT http://www.eduwonk.com/2008/07/short-selling-the-schools.html#comment-1972 BT Thu, 17 Jul 2008 23:34:28 +0000 http://www.eduwonk.com/?p=3399#comment-1972 So Gardner can argue with numbers on the vouchers but Eduwonk cannot argue with numbers on the other schools? OK. So Gardner can argue with numbers on the vouchers but Eduwonk cannot argue with numbers on the other schools? OK.

]]> By: john thompson http://www.eduwonk.com/2008/07/short-selling-the-schools.html#comment-1971 john thompson Thu, 17 Jul 2008 23:10:50 +0000 http://www.eduwonk.com/?p=3399#comment-1971 Oh come on. If it was George Bush releasing a comparable set of numbers on anything, the deficit, Iraq, CIA flights, warnings, or whatever, would you just believe it? Wouldn't you withhold judgment for a while? Numbers are just numbers. Wait a while before claiming that any numbers from Rhee's world are reflecting reality. I'll admit my bias. I despise what she stands for in terms of letting great ends justify disgusting means. But I hope I'd give credit if it worked out that way. We all want what's best for the D.C. children. So wait a while before drawing conclusions. D.C. is a particularly rough case. Its exceptionally hard to wrestle with the moral calculus when the kids have been so ill-served for so long. But don't just assume the most vicious approachs are the most effective. Oh come on. If it was George Bush releasing a comparable set of numbers on anything, the deficit, Iraq, CIA flights, warnings, or whatever, would you just believe it? Wouldn’t you withhold judgment for a while?

Numbers are just numbers. Wait a while before claiming that any numbers from Rhee’s world are reflecting reality.

I’ll admit my bias. I despise what she stands for in terms of letting great ends justify disgusting means. But I hope I’d give credit if it worked out that way. We all want what’s best for the D.C. children. So wait a while before drawing conclusions.

D.C. is a particularly rough case. Its exceptionally hard to wrestle with the moral calculus when the kids have been so ill-served for so long. But don’t just assume the most vicious approachs are the most effective.

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