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	<title>Comments on: That 70s Show!</title>
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	<link>http://www.eduwonk.com/2008/06/that-70s-show.html</link>
	<description>Education News, Analysis, and Commentary</description>
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		<title>By: &#8220;Schools Can&#8217;t Fix Poverty. And That&#8217;s OK&#8221; at The Core Knowledge Blog</title>
		<link>http://www.eduwonk.com/2008/06/that-70s-show.html/comment-page-1#comment-22265</link>
		<dc:creator>&#8220;Schools Can&#8217;t Fix Poverty. And That&#8217;s OK&#8221; at The Core Knowledge Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Nov 2008 15:48:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eduwonk.com/wordpress/2008/06/that-70s-show.html#comment-22265</guid>
		<description>[...] to do more as long as questions exist about how well they execute their primary function.  And accountability hawks across the political spectrum question whether such an approach is really a way to deflect a focus [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] to do more as long as questions exist about how well they execute their primary function.  And accountability hawks across the political spectrum question whether such an approach is really a way to deflect a focus [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.eduwonk.com/2008/06/that-70s-show.html/comment-page-1#comment-903</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jun 2008 19:47:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eduwonk.com/wordpress/2008/06/that-70s-show.html#comment-903</guid>
		<description>This is silly. Schools are for educating children. Public health workers are for improving health. Calling for better pre-school nutrition, health, etc. has nothing to do with schools exactly. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Getting access to pre-K for poor kids, OK that has to do with education. Getting classroom teachers to teach more effectively and use time well, that has to do with education. Measuring whether these affect student learning, that has to do with education. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Back in the 1970s, it was fashionable to say that schools couldn&#039;t really do anything to educate kids until there was a social revolution that redistributed wealth, etc. This manifesto could easily have popped up during that era.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is silly. Schools are for educating children. Public health workers are for improving health. Calling for better pre-school nutrition, health, etc. has nothing to do with schools exactly. </p>
<p>Getting access to pre-K for poor kids, OK that has to do with education. Getting classroom teachers to teach more effectively and use time well, that has to do with education. Measuring whether these affect student learning, that has to do with education. </p>
<p>Back in the 1970s, it was fashionable to say that schools couldn&#8217;t really do anything to educate kids until there was a social revolution that redistributed wealth, etc. This manifesto could easily have popped up during that era.</p>
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		<title>By: Eli Rector</title>
		<link>http://www.eduwonk.com/2008/06/that-70s-show.html/comment-page-1#comment-901</link>
		<dc:creator>Eli Rector</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jun 2008 05:23:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eduwonk.com/wordpress/2008/06/that-70s-show.html#comment-901</guid>
		<description>Oh come on, we know how to walk and chew gum.  (Or drink tab and listen to the beegees?)&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;The SES side has been almost completely removed from the NCLB picture.  We&#039;re just coaxing it back in.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;*pops collar, spins and does splits*</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh come on, we know how to walk and chew gum.  (Or drink tab and listen to the beegees?)</p>
<p>The SES side has been almost completely removed from the NCLB picture.  We&#8217;re just coaxing it back in.</p>
<p>*pops collar, spins and does splits*</p>
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		<title>By: john thompson</title>
		<link>http://www.eduwonk.com/2008/06/that-70s-show.html/comment-page-1#comment-899</link>
		<dc:creator>john thompson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2008 21:45:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eduwonk.com/wordpress/2008/06/that-70s-show.html#comment-899</guid>
		<description>I just followed your links, and then followed Sara Mead&#039;s links, and that leads me to a question.  Its a real question, not rhetorical, and I hope for a naswer from someone.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Richard Colvin described the new report as being in the tradition of Richard Rothstein and then he wrote:  &quot;but some education reformers argue that Rothstein is letting schools off the hook.&quot;  I&#039;ve read the same thing over and over.  But I can&#039;t recall counter arguments against Rothstein&#039;s evidence and analysis.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Rothstein can&#039;t be perfect.  But I can&#039;t recall an educator who has laid a glove on him.  In this week&#039;s Ed Week, one article (twice) issued one sentence paragraphs to refute Rothstein, &quot;It&#039;s about the schools.&quot;  Read the article carefully, however, and none of his evidence contradicts Rothstein or documents an alternative.  I have to conclude that its all about the sound bites.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;So, &quot;the new education manifesto&quot; does not seriously discuss accountability.  How&#039;s this for the groundrules of a discussion?  Unless someone has earth-shattering new evidence, lets accept the Broad Challenge&#039;s logic on health, preparedness, early interventions, home, etc. as a given.  (We still haven&#039;t refuted Newton even though physics has continued to advance.)  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Then, let&#039;s discuss what role we want for accountability.  Let&#039;s not just assume that a single, national accountability system is necessary for political and educational reasons.  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I won&#039;t repeat my suggestions, except to again argue that we should rely first on data for diagnostic purposes.  Then we need rifle-shot accountability for each educational initiative.  If we need to pound the word &quot;accountability&quot; for political reasons, that&#039;s fine.  Let&#039;s discuss political realities and how we can demostrate toughness, without forming a circular firing squad.  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Regarding the 70s, Tab, etc., I really do enjoy you youngsters&#039; nostalgic comments.  But they recall the serious wisdom of the late Bill Strauss.  The Baby Boomers, he explained were the last generation to have a joyous memory of public schools.  (and hopefully Baby Boomers are aware of how much the benefits of our White schools were subsidized by Jim Crow)  Demographics and economics did serious harm to schools in the 70s, prompting a severe backlash by Gen X.  We Baby Boomers must admit that the demand for Market forces in education will not go away.  But we must protect the old democratic and liberal arts values of education.  When we get a report issued by 60 great scholars, educators, and thinkers, let&#039;s appreciate it for what it is.  Let&#039;s not assume that we need to follow with an &quot;on the other hand&quot; argument that anything that humane sounds too mushy, and must be rejected as pre-NCLB or pre-Nation at Risk, or pre...whatever.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just followed your links, and then followed Sara Mead&#8217;s links, and that leads me to a question.  Its a real question, not rhetorical, and I hope for a naswer from someone.</p>
<p>Richard Colvin described the new report as being in the tradition of Richard Rothstein and then he wrote:  &#8220;but some education reformers argue that Rothstein is letting schools off the hook.&#8221;  I&#8217;ve read the same thing over and over.  But I can&#8217;t recall counter arguments against Rothstein&#8217;s evidence and analysis.</p>
<p>Rothstein can&#8217;t be perfect.  But I can&#8217;t recall an educator who has laid a glove on him.  In this week&#8217;s Ed Week, one article (twice) issued one sentence paragraphs to refute Rothstein, &#8220;It&#8217;s about the schools.&#8221;  Read the article carefully, however, and none of his evidence contradicts Rothstein or documents an alternative.  I have to conclude that its all about the sound bites.</p>
<p>So, &#8220;the new education manifesto&#8221; does not seriously discuss accountability.  How&#8217;s this for the groundrules of a discussion?  Unless someone has earth-shattering new evidence, lets accept the Broad Challenge&#8217;s logic on health, preparedness, early interventions, home, etc. as a given.  (We still haven&#8217;t refuted Newton even though physics has continued to advance.)  </p>
<p>Then, let&#8217;s discuss what role we want for accountability.  Let&#8217;s not just assume that a single, national accountability system is necessary for political and educational reasons.  </p>
<p>I won&#8217;t repeat my suggestions, except to again argue that we should rely first on data for diagnostic purposes.  Then we need rifle-shot accountability for each educational initiative.  If we need to pound the word &#8220;accountability&#8221; for political reasons, that&#8217;s fine.  Let&#8217;s discuss political realities and how we can demostrate toughness, without forming a circular firing squad.  </p>
<p>Regarding the 70s, Tab, etc., I really do enjoy you youngsters&#8217; nostalgic comments.  But they recall the serious wisdom of the late Bill Strauss.  The Baby Boomers, he explained were the last generation to have a joyous memory of public schools.  (and hopefully Baby Boomers are aware of how much the benefits of our White schools were subsidized by Jim Crow)  Demographics and economics did serious harm to schools in the 70s, prompting a severe backlash by Gen X.  We Baby Boomers must admit that the demand for Market forces in education will not go away.  But we must protect the old democratic and liberal arts values of education.  When we get a report issued by 60 great scholars, educators, and thinkers, let&#8217;s appreciate it for what it is.  Let&#8217;s not assume that we need to follow with an &#8220;on the other hand&#8221; argument that anything that humane sounds too mushy, and must be rejected as pre-NCLB or pre-Nation at Risk, or pre&#8230;whatever.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.eduwonk.com/2008/06/that-70s-show.html/comment-page-1#comment-898</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2008 19:10:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eduwonk.com/wordpress/2008/06/that-70s-show.html#comment-898</guid>
		<description>In response to what has been written:&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;You did not say what Eduwonkette said you did or what Socrates says you wrote either. Typical for the blogs.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I miss Tab.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In response to what has been written:</p>
<p>You did not say what Eduwonkette said you did or what Socrates says you wrote either. Typical for the blogs.</p>
<p>I miss Tab.</p>
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		<title>By: paprgl</title>
		<link>http://www.eduwonk.com/2008/06/that-70s-show.html/comment-page-1#comment-897</link>
		<dc:creator>paprgl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2008 18:14:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eduwonk.com/wordpress/2008/06/that-70s-show.html#comment-897</guid>
		<description>I like Tab and the Bee Gees.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like Tab and the Bee Gees.</p>
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		<title>By: Socrates</title>
		<link>http://www.eduwonk.com/2008/06/that-70s-show.html/comment-page-1#comment-895</link>
		<dc:creator>Socrates</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2008 14:26:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eduwonk.com/wordpress/2008/06/that-70s-show.html#comment-895</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re absolutely right.  The fact that they call this a &quot;bold&quot; proposal is comedic.  This is incrementalism at its worst - none of these proposals get at the root of the problem, which is that poor parents cannot choose where to send their kids to school.  As you say, these are the same old tired bromides that have all been tried before with miserable results.  The structure of the system is what needs to change, not the features of that structure.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re absolutely right.  The fact that they call this a &#8220;bold&#8221; proposal is comedic.  This is incrementalism at its worst &#8211; none of these proposals get at the root of the problem, which is that poor parents cannot choose where to send their kids to school.  As you say, these are the same old tired bromides that have all been tried before with miserable results.  The structure of the system is what needs to change, not the features of that structure.</p>
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