Comments on: History http://www.eduwonk.com/2008/01/history.html Education News, Analysis, and Commentary Fri, 19 Mar 2010 03:09:59 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.2 hourly 1 By: Bogolyubov http://www.eduwonk.com/2008/01/history.html/comment-page-1#comment-20893 Bogolyubov Thu, 06 Nov 2008 02:35:20 +0000 http://www.eduwonk.com/wordpress/2008/01/history.html#comment-20893 Thanks for the info! Thanks for the info!

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.eduwonk.com/2008/01/history.html/comment-page-1#comment-314 Anonymous Thu, 17 Jan 2008 21:47:00 +0000 http://www.eduwonk.com/wordpress/2008/01/history.html#comment-314 It is TEACHING not teachers that helps poor kids.<br/><br/>If all teachers were excellent at teaching, that would be a good thing. <br/><br/>But you can't make sure that all teachers become experts by, alternative routes to teaching, or by opening lots of charter schools. These mechanisms might create an excellent school or classroom, but on a small scale only. There is nothing about a charter school, or even TFA, that guarantees large-scale, across the board improvement for poor kids.<br/><br/>I'm not a big fan of the public schools as is, but I am a realist. It is TEACHING not teachers that helps poor kids.

If all teachers were excellent at teaching, that would be a good thing.

But you can’t make sure that all teachers become experts by, alternative routes to teaching, or by opening lots of charter schools. These mechanisms might create an excellent school or classroom, but on a small scale only. There is nothing about a charter school, or even TFA, that guarantees large-scale, across the board improvement for poor kids.

I’m not a big fan of the public schools as is, but I am a realist.

]]> By: Sherman Dorn http://www.eduwonk.com/2008/01/history.html/comment-page-1#comment-313 Sherman Dorn Thu, 17 Jan 2008 21:38:00 +0000 http://www.eduwonk.com/wordpress/2008/01/history.html#comment-313 I'll take that as a challenge, though I may not be able to respond at length today. Brief answer: Cuban and Tyack, and then my criticism of that (I'll find the reference in the next few days). Also Jennifer Hochschild's 1984 book on desegregation. In some ways, the <em>inside-outside</em> language is a false dichotomy, for reasons similar to why "get the politics out of education" is a bit silly. Schools aren't separate from the rest of society. I’ll take that as a challenge, though I may not be able to respond at length today. Brief answer: Cuban and Tyack, and then my criticism of that (I’ll find the reference in the next few days). Also Jennifer Hochschild’s 1984 book on desegregation. In some ways, the inside-outside language is a false dichotomy, for reasons similar to why “get the politics out of education” is a bit silly. Schools aren’t separate from the rest of society.

]]> By: dt http://www.eduwonk.com/2008/01/history.html/comment-page-1#comment-312 dt Thu, 17 Jan 2008 20:42:00 +0000 http://www.eduwonk.com/wordpress/2008/01/history.html#comment-312 Switching fields from History to the public schools 15 years ago, I'd say the "firm canonical underpinnings" of education are comparable to those in my old career. As much as I love and respect the social science of History, I'd never use its conclusions as a practical guide for policy, and I don't we are even close to the point in Education where we can make national systemic policy recommendations. <br/><br/>I'm not a cynic. Someday the research will come. But today, I can't conceive a social science approach that addresses systemic answers.<br/><br/>Perhaps the best guide for action would be the research-based conclusion that schools don't yet make a significant change for poor kids but teachers do. Since we don't yet know how to transform high poverty secondary schools, much less entire systems, we should be more modest and build a much bigger and more talented, and more diverse body of teachers. Once we have "the hosses," then we can develop a better game plan. But as coaches know, its the players that win or lose games with the "Xs and Os" making the difference in a very few games. Take the New England Patriot's game plan and apply it to a franchise that lacks players, and that alone will accomplish nothing.<br/><br/>By the way, there is no research to prove my above assertion. Its common sense. And in the real world, has anyone seen it happen differently?<br/><br/>John Thompson Switching fields from History to the public schools 15 years ago, I’d say the “firm canonical underpinnings” of education are comparable to those in my old career. As much as I love and respect the social science of History, I’d never use its conclusions as a practical guide for policy, and I don’t we are even close to the point in Education where we can make national systemic policy recommendations.

I’m not a cynic. Someday the research will come. But today, I can’t conceive a social science approach that addresses systemic answers.

Perhaps the best guide for action would be the research-based conclusion that schools don’t yet make a significant change for poor kids but teachers do. Since we don’t yet know how to transform high poverty secondary schools, much less entire systems, we should be more modest and build a much bigger and more talented, and more diverse body of teachers. Once we have “the hosses,” then we can develop a better game plan. But as coaches know, its the players that win or lose games with the “Xs and Os” making the difference in a very few games. Take the New England Patriot’s game plan and apply it to a franchise that lacks players, and that alone will accomplish nothing.

By the way, there is no research to prove my above assertion. Its common sense. And in the real world, has anyone seen it happen differently?

John Thompson

]]> By: LiberDad http://www.eduwonk.com/2008/01/history.html/comment-page-1#comment-311 LiberDad Thu, 17 Jan 2008 19:11:00 +0000 http://www.eduwonk.com/wordpress/2008/01/history.html#comment-311 Never? Never?

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