Comments on: Performance Pay…The New Vouchers! http://www.eduwonk.com/2007/11/performance-paythe-new-vouchers.html Education News, Analysis, and Commentary Thu, 11 Mar 2010 18:56:47 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.2 hourly 1 By: Brooks http://www.eduwonk.com/2007/11/performance-paythe-new-vouchers.html/comment-page-1#comment-78034 Brooks Wed, 20 May 2009 21:21:12 +0000 http://www.eduwonk.com/wordpress/2007/11/performance-paythe-new-vouchers.html#comment-78034 It may be worth having a look at Debatepedia's extensive pro/con article on merit pay for teachers. Helps put this article in the context of the larger debate: http://wiki.idebate.org/index.php/Debate:_Merit_pay_for_teachers#Con http://wiki.idebate.org/index.php/Welcome_to_Debatepedia! It may be worth having a look at Debatepedia’s extensive pro/con article on merit pay for teachers. Helps put this article in the context of the larger debate:

http://wiki.idebate.org/index.php/Debate:_Merit_pay_for_teachers#Con

http://wiki.idebate.org/index.php/Welcome_to_Debatepedia!

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.eduwonk.com/2007/11/performance-paythe-new-vouchers.html/comment-page-1#comment-173 Anonymous Wed, 28 Nov 2007 11:02:00 +0000 http://www.eduwonk.com/wordpress/2007/11/performance-paythe-new-vouchers.html#comment-173 Amy-<br/><br/>Proposed performance pay plans aren't based on raw test scores. "Value-added" measures (the progress made/points gained) make sure that groups like those you mentioned are not put at a disadvantage just because their raw scores are lower. Amy-

Proposed performance pay plans aren’t based on raw test scores. “Value-added” measures (the progress made/points gained) make sure that groups like those you mentioned are not put at a disadvantage just because their raw scores are lower.

]]> By: Amy http://www.eduwonk.com/2007/11/performance-paythe-new-vouchers.html/comment-page-1#comment-171 Amy Wed, 28 Nov 2007 00:22:00 +0000 http://www.eduwonk.com/wordpress/2007/11/performance-paythe-new-vouchers.html#comment-171 My question is this: how is "performance" to be judged? If by test scores, then do teachers of English Language Learners, socio-economically disadvantaged students, students who need Special Education, behaviorally challenging students or students living through a crisis such as divorce or death of a family member get differential points? I am not looking for a hand-out or making excuses, but wondering just whose performance the politicians plan to pay for? My question is this: how is “performance” to be judged? If by test scores, then do teachers of English Language Learners, socio-economically disadvantaged students, students who need Special Education, behaviorally challenging students or students living through a crisis such as divorce or death of a family member get differential points? I am not looking for a hand-out or making excuses, but wondering just whose performance the politicians plan to pay for?

]]> By: NYC Educator http://www.eduwonk.com/2007/11/performance-paythe-new-vouchers.html/comment-page-1#comment-169 NYC Educator Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:19:00 +0000 http://www.eduwonk.com/wordpress/2007/11/performance-paythe-new-vouchers.html#comment-169 I read that, and I'm afraid I can't sort it out. My prescription for good schools is simpler:<br/><br/>1. Good teachers<br/>2. Reasonable class sizes<br/>3. decent facilities<br/><br/>and they go in that order. It works well in the nearby suburb where I live. Personally, I think those without merit should not be teaching children at all. I read that, and I’m afraid I can’t sort it out. My prescription for good schools is simpler:

1. Good teachers
2. Reasonable class sizes
3. decent facilities

and they go in that order. It works well in the nearby suburb where I live. Personally, I think those without merit should not be teaching children at all.

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.eduwonk.com/2007/11/performance-paythe-new-vouchers.html/comment-page-1#comment-168 Anonymous Mon, 26 Nov 2007 22:45:00 +0000 http://www.eduwonk.com/wordpress/2007/11/performance-paythe-new-vouchers.html#comment-168 NYC, the Eduwonk wrote<br/><br/>I'm completely confused about the merit pay/performance-pay differentiations that are a hot issue in teachers' union circles. Here AFTie One-L* pushes back on Tapped's Dana Goldstein writing that, "[The AFT] objected to the federal mandate that student test scores must be used to determine whether teachers get the incentive" in the Miller-McKeon No Child Left Behind draft proposal. But in New York City test scores are part of the bonus plan that was just put in place, the rewards can go to the whole school or just some teachers depending on what they decide at the school. Yet that's not merit pay, says UFT Pres Randi Weingarten: "Unlike merit-pay plans that provide financial incentives to individual educators, the schoolwide bonus plan will reward the entire staff of any participating school that shows a significant gain in academic achievement." I'd love for someone to sort this all out. NYC, the Eduwonk wrote

I’m completely confused about the merit pay/performance-pay differentiations that are a hot issue in teachers’ union circles. Here AFTie One-L* pushes back on Tapped’s Dana Goldstein writing that, “[The AFT] objected to the federal mandate that student test scores must be used to determine whether teachers get the incentive” in the Miller-McKeon No Child Left Behind draft proposal. But in New York City test scores are part of the bonus plan that was just put in place, the rewards can go to the whole school or just some teachers depending on what they decide at the school. Yet that’s not merit pay, says UFT Pres Randi Weingarten: “Unlike merit-pay plans that provide financial incentives to individual educators, the schoolwide bonus plan will reward the entire staff of any participating school that shows a significant gain in academic achievement.” I’d love for someone to sort this all out.

]]> By: NYC Educator http://www.eduwonk.com/2007/11/performance-paythe-new-vouchers.html/comment-page-1#comment-167 NYC Educator Mon, 26 Nov 2007 21:01:00 +0000 http://www.eduwonk.com/wordpress/2007/11/performance-paythe-new-vouchers.html#comment-167 It's interesting that for unions like mine, "performance pay" is a good thing, while "merit pay" is a downright abomination. Perhaps I, as a lowly school teacher, am simply incapable of making such fine distinctions.<br/><br/>But the politicians are sharp indeed, quickly embracing the politically correct term. In fact, I'd have sworn Hillary Clinton's statement, had I not seen her make it, came straight from the mouth of UFT President Randi Weingarten. It’s interesting that for unions like mine, “performance pay” is a good thing, while “merit pay” is a downright abomination. Perhaps I, as a lowly school teacher, am simply incapable of making such fine distinctions.

But the politicians are sharp indeed, quickly embracing the politically correct term. In fact, I’d have sworn Hillary Clinton’s statement, had I not seen her make it, came straight from the mouth of UFT President Randi Weingarten.

]]> By: Ed http://www.eduwonk.com/2007/11/performance-paythe-new-vouchers.html/comment-page-1#comment-166 Ed Mon, 26 Nov 2007 17:58:00 +0000 http://www.eduwonk.com/wordpress/2007/11/performance-paythe-new-vouchers.html#comment-166 Not only is performance pay only one piece of the puzzle, but there are right and wrong ways to implement performance pay plans. Unfortunately, far too many politicians at all levels simply want to use some form of value-added measures based on standardized assessments as the entire performance pay plan. Even if basing such performance pay decisions on one measure was advisable (which it is not), far too many assessments were not designed in such a way that value-added measures are accurate. As often is the case, I think the political rhetoric will make performance pay plans seem like a simple silver bullet and when it turns out that they are not, performance pay will be another quickly abandoned fad that "didn't" work. Not only is performance pay only one piece of the puzzle, but there are right and wrong ways to implement performance pay plans. Unfortunately, far too many politicians at all levels simply want to use some form of value-added measures based on standardized assessments as the entire performance pay plan. Even if basing such performance pay decisions on one measure was advisable (which it is not), far too many assessments were not designed in such a way that value-added measures are accurate. As often is the case, I think the political rhetoric will make performance pay plans seem like a simple silver bullet and when it turns out that they are not, performance pay will be another quickly abandoned fad that “didn’t” work.

]]> By: Jon http://www.eduwonk.com/2007/11/performance-paythe-new-vouchers.html/comment-page-1#comment-165 Jon Mon, 26 Nov 2007 17:52:00 +0000 http://www.eduwonk.com/wordpress/2007/11/performance-paythe-new-vouchers.html#comment-165 Darren--<br/><br/>Must one choose? It's clearly both.<br/><br/>Actually, it's probably neither. They are well informed about which buzzwords the think tanks are pushing and they don't want to solve any problems--they want to get elected.<br/><br/>Cynical, I know, but do *any* candidates on either side have *any* record of ever before doing anything to improve education?<br/><br/>If 'performance pay' is the new vouchers, it's because even people who like their local schools can probably identify one or two (or more) teachers whom they'd like to see fired--performance pay sounds like a way you could drive them out of the profession (or at least exact a little revenge). Darren–

Must one choose? It’s clearly both.

Actually, it’s probably neither. They are well informed about which buzzwords the think tanks are pushing and they don’t want to solve any problems–they want to get elected.

Cynical, I know, but do *any* candidates on either side have *any* record of ever before doing anything to improve education?

If ‘performance pay’ is the new vouchers, it’s because even people who like their local schools can probably identify one or two (or more) teachers whom they’d like to see fired–performance pay sounds like a way you could drive them out of the profession (or at least exact a little revenge).

]]> By: Darren Draper http://www.eduwonk.com/2007/11/performance-paythe-new-vouchers.html/comment-page-1#comment-164 Darren Draper Mon, 26 Nov 2007 17:41:00 +0000 http://www.eduwonk.com/wordpress/2007/11/performance-paythe-new-vouchers.html#comment-164 Well said, Andrew. It's unfortunate that our nation's leaders are so short-sighted - and I'm left wondering why?<br/><br/>Do you think it's because they're just not well-informed or do they choose to hopefully solve these huge problems with a one-size-fits-all band-aid? Well said, Andrew. It’s unfortunate that our nation’s leaders are so short-sighted – and I’m left wondering why?

Do you think it’s because they’re just not well-informed or do they choose to hopefully solve these huge problems with a one-size-fits-all band-aid?

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