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	<title>Comments on: Peer Reviewed, Or If Rick Kahlenberg Had A Nuclear Bomb&#8230;</title>
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	<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 02:14:39 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Firma</title>
		<link>http://www.eduwonk.com/2007/11/peer-reviewed-or-if-rick-kahlenberg-had-a-nuclear-bomb.html#comment-163</link>
		<dc:creator>Firma</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Nov 2007 12:37:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Can everyone improve or must some be dismissed?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can everyone improve or must some be dismissed?</p>
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		<title>By: Woodlass</title>
		<link>http://www.eduwonk.com/2007/11/peer-reviewed-or-if-rick-kahlenberg-had-a-nuclear-bomb.html#comment-139</link>
		<dc:creator>Woodlass</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Nov 2007 11:24:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I agree that peer review is complicated.  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;But, it's unfair to say that teachers have to be subjected to a higher bar than, let's say, lawyers, and that we need to be harder on ourselves (or more willing to undergo peer review) because we can "really hurt a students chances." &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Incompetent but still working lawyers play with life and death issues all the time. Nothing is more hurtful than an innocent person doing time or sitting on death row for incompetence. Bus drivers, nurses, bridge builders, teachers, judges, any of the professions that care for, transport, monitor, or house people have degrees of competence in the ranks. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Never say that we are pretending the problem doesn't exist, because it's not the case.  We need to find ways to prune the people who damage other people, but still recognize that the humans are a very mixed bag. There will never be a perfect formula for pruning the ranks -- especially when inherent in all such systems are friendships, liaisons, loyalties, bargaining, maneuvering for self-preservation and self-advancement.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that peer review is complicated.  </p>
<p>But, it&#8217;s unfair to say that teachers have to be subjected to a higher bar than, let&#8217;s say, lawyers, and that we need to be harder on ourselves (or more willing to undergo peer review) because we can &#8220;really hurt a students chances.&#8221; </p>
<p>Incompetent but still working lawyers play with life and death issues all the time. Nothing is more hurtful than an innocent person doing time or sitting on death row for incompetence. Bus drivers, nurses, bridge builders, teachers, judges, any of the professions that care for, transport, monitor, or house people have degrees of competence in the ranks. </p>
<p>Never say that we are pretending the problem doesn&#8217;t exist, because it&#8217;s not the case.  We need to find ways to prune the people who damage other people, but still recognize that the humans are a very mixed bag. There will never be a perfect formula for pruning the ranks &#8212; especially when inherent in all such systems are friendships, liaisons, loyalties, bargaining, maneuvering for self-preservation and self-advancement.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.eduwonk.com/2007/11/peer-reviewed-or-if-rick-kahlenberg-had-a-nuclear-bomb.html#comment-137</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Nov 2007 00:18:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Our administration gave a presentation on its tenure-granting process at a school board meeting last week.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;We learned that over 50% of teachers being hired have had no experience at all. The rest have had less than 5 years' experience.  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Per pupil funding: $22,000/year. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Our experienced teachers are retiring in droves, and the district intends to replace them with novices. I know of one case in which the high school flatly refused even to interview a middle-aged teacher of math and physics who came to us with stellar recommendations. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;The administration's stated objective is to give tenure to everyone. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;"Our goal isn't to fire new teachers," or words to that effect.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;New teachers who aren't especially effective are extensively "mentored" and "supported." Then they are given tenure, apparently on the basis of having had so much mentoring and support. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;No measures of student achievement are included in tenure discussions, and student evaluations cannot be considered as per union contract. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;The district appears to be using the same "inputs" model they use with our kids. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;If your child has "taken" pre-algebra, then he knows pre-algebra and is ready to "take" algebra.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;If a novice teacher has been mentored, then she knows how to teach and can be given tenure. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;i&gt;Huge&lt;/i&gt; quantities of teacher mentoring are going on.  Hours and hours of administrative time and energy are going into mentoring and support; many thousands of dollars are being paid to  professional development vendors as well as to our two new full-time teaching-learning facilitators who’ve been hired to mentor the teachers. We are a learning community!&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;The feeling one takes away from all this is that the real students are the teachers. They are all very young; the schools look like a college campus. Our middle-aged administrators are emotionally and professionally invested in these young people, and they work hard to help them succeed.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Meanwhile the actual students, our children, are expected to "seek extra help." If our children don't seek extra help, well, then, there's nothing the school can do. There is certainly no talk of mentoring. For the kids, it's sink or swim.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;From time to time the administration is forced to let someone go, an action that is taken only after long deliberation and with feelings of regret. That very evening, in fact, the administration and the board had met in executive session to discuss the case of a "borderline" tenure case. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;From a parent's point of view, of course, "borderline" means there's nothing to discuss. After all, we are paying some of the highest salaries in the country. But parents' point of view is neither here nor there, and the district routinely tenures teachers parents oppose.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;The tenure committee is comprised of other teachers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Our administration gave a presentation on its tenure-granting process at a school board meeting last week.</p>
<p>We learned that over 50% of teachers being hired have had no experience at all. The rest have had less than 5 years&#8217; experience.  </p>
<p>Per pupil funding: $22,000/year. </p>
<p>Our experienced teachers are retiring in droves, and the district intends to replace them with novices. I know of one case in which the high school flatly refused even to interview a middle-aged teacher of math and physics who came to us with stellar recommendations. </p>
<p>The administration&#8217;s stated objective is to give tenure to everyone. </p>
<p>&#8220;Our goal isn&#8217;t to fire new teachers,&#8221; or words to that effect.</p>
<p>New teachers who aren&#8217;t especially effective are extensively &#8220;mentored&#8221; and &#8220;supported.&#8221; Then they are given tenure, apparently on the basis of having had so much mentoring and support. </p>
<p>No measures of student achievement are included in tenure discussions, and student evaluations cannot be considered as per union contract. </p>
<p>The district appears to be using the same &#8220;inputs&#8221; model they use with our kids. </p>
<p>If your child has &#8220;taken&#8221; pre-algebra, then he knows pre-algebra and is ready to &#8220;take&#8221; algebra.</p>
<p>If a novice teacher has been mentored, then she knows how to teach and can be given tenure. </p>
<p><i>Huge</i> quantities of teacher mentoring are going on.  Hours and hours of administrative time and energy are going into mentoring and support; many thousands of dollars are being paid to  professional development vendors as well as to our two new full-time teaching-learning facilitators who’ve been hired to mentor the teachers. We are a learning community!</p>
<p>The feeling one takes away from all this is that the real students are the teachers. They are all very young; the schools look like a college campus. Our middle-aged administrators are emotionally and professionally invested in these young people, and they work hard to help them succeed.</p>
<p>Meanwhile the actual students, our children, are expected to &#8220;seek extra help.&#8221; If our children don&#8217;t seek extra help, well, then, there&#8217;s nothing the school can do. There is certainly no talk of mentoring. For the kids, it&#8217;s sink or swim.</p>
<p>From time to time the administration is forced to let someone go, an action that is taken only after long deliberation and with feelings of regret. That very evening, in fact, the administration and the board had met in executive session to discuss the case of a &#8220;borderline&#8221; tenure case. </p>
<p>From a parent&#8217;s point of view, of course, &#8220;borderline&#8221; means there&#8217;s nothing to discuss. After all, we are paying some of the highest salaries in the country. But parents&#8217; point of view is neither here nor there, and the district routinely tenures teachers parents oppose.</p>
<p>The tenure committee is comprised of other teachers.</p>
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		<title>By: GGW</title>
		<link>http://www.eduwonk.com/2007/11/peer-reviewed-or-if-rick-kahlenberg-had-a-nuclear-bomb.html#comment-134</link>
		<dc:creator>GGW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2007 17:39:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Burger King may not hire obviously insane people, but I've seen one or two at the Taco Bell recently who were clearly thinking far, far outside the bun.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Burger King may not hire obviously insane people, but I&#8217;ve seen one or two at the Taco Bell recently who were clearly thinking far, far outside the bun.</p>
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		<title>By: allen</title>
		<link>http://www.eduwonk.com/2007/11/peer-reviewed-or-if-rick-kahlenberg-had-a-nuclear-bomb.html#comment-132</link>
		<dc:creator>allen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2007 15:56:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&gt; why is the solution always dismissal? There are other ways to help struggling teachers.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Right now the solution is almost never dismissal even when it's thoroughly warranted. I think there's lots of room between almost never firing anyone no matter the circumstances to firing on a whim.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>> why is the solution always dismissal? There are other ways to help struggling teachers.</p>
<p>Right now the solution is almost never dismissal even when it&#8217;s thoroughly warranted. I think there&#8217;s lots of room between almost never firing anyone no matter the circumstances to firing on a whim.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.eduwonk.com/2007/11/peer-reviewed-or-if-rick-kahlenberg-had-a-nuclear-bomb.html#comment-131</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2007 14:19:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Can everyone improve or must some  be dismissed?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can everyone improve or must some  be dismissed?</p>
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		<title>By: age group mom</title>
		<link>http://www.eduwonk.com/2007/11/peer-reviewed-or-if-rick-kahlenberg-had-a-nuclear-bomb.html#comment-129</link>
		<dc:creator>age group mom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2007 13:10:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>why is the solution always dismissal? There are other ways to help struggling teachers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>why is the solution always dismissal? There are other ways to help struggling teachers.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon</title>
		<link>http://www.eduwonk.com/2007/11/peer-reviewed-or-if-rick-kahlenberg-had-a-nuclear-bomb.html#comment-128</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Nov 2007 01:44:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>"They do not hire those who are obviously insane, which I think is a good policy."&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;:0&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Beer, wine, or G&#038;T? You pick, I'll buy, and we'll get it all sorted.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;They do not hire those who are obviously insane, which I think is a good policy.&#8221;</p>
<p>:0</p>
<p>Beer, wine, or G&#038;T? You pick, I&#8217;ll buy, and we&#8217;ll get it all sorted.</p>
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		<title>By: NYC Educator</title>
		<link>http://www.eduwonk.com/2007/11/peer-reviewed-or-if-rick-kahlenberg-had-a-nuclear-bomb.html#comment-127</link>
		<dc:creator>NYC Educator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Nov 2007 00:49:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Caramba.  Should be "their" mail-order spouses.  Pardon me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Caramba.  Should be &#8220;their&#8221; mail-order spouses.  Pardon me.</p>
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		<title>By: NYC Educator</title>
		<link>http://www.eduwonk.com/2007/11/peer-reviewed-or-if-rick-kahlenberg-had-a-nuclear-bomb.html#comment-126</link>
		<dc:creator>NYC Educator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Nov 2007 23:20:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Jon, &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I agree with you completely, and I think a more reasonable tenure process takes place in the suburb where I live.  For example, they do not hire those who are obviously insane, which I think is a good policy.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;We can do better, but in a place like NYC where there's a well-entrenched culture of dysfunction, you have to address the dysfunction head on.  Now that can be done.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;But the powers that be in NYC have thus far opted for cheap PR rather than worthwhile change.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jon, </p>
<p>I agree with you completely, and I think a more reasonable tenure process takes place in the suburb where I live.  For example, they do not hire those who are obviously insane, which I think is a good policy.</p>
<p>We can do better, but in a place like NYC where there&#8217;s a well-entrenched culture of dysfunction, you have to address the dysfunction head on.  Now that can be done.</p>
<p>But the powers that be in NYC have thus far opted for cheap PR rather than worthwhile change.</p>
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